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  1. #21
    Member Heiros's Avatar
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    I just don’t see the argument to why Bethesda could be considered anything but complete assholes here.

    Imagine they built houses instead of games. This would be the equivalent of them presenting you with a new home that’s built and looks complete in the outside, but they’ve not yet insulated the place, barely started the wiring and the plumbing is still a pipe dream (heh.). Sure, their going to fix it in the next year or few months. But you can’t live in it as it is.

    It is a reasonable expectation to have a finished house, or a playable game. Sure, maybe there’s a dodgy socket or a light switch that doesn’t work properly. But that something small and easily, and that’s the level of bugs you should have to expect. Inconvenient but not unplayable.

    Add in the fact their denying refunds and their nothing but complete asshats in my mind. You’d expect money back if that was your house, regardless of how you bought it. So why not when they sell you a game?
    Last edited by Heiros; 12-13-2018 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Toned down the language
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  2. #22
    Senior Member RoG Seraph's Avatar

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    The problems can be fixed.

    The point I am trying to make and have been trying to make is that suing a company because their game has bugs is ridiculous.

    The bag thing I will agree was pretty stupid though. But on the flip side of it, McDonald's gets away with the exact same thing every day.

    If people want to sue Bethesda for these things they will have to sue every other game developer for the exact same thing.

    I am not trying to defend them or say that it is right, I am simply trying to point out that you cannot sue a company for a game having bugs in it.

  3. #23
    Member Heiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoG Seraph View Post
    The problems can be fixed.

    The point I am trying to make and have been trying to make is that suing a company because their game has bugs is ridiculous.

    The bag thing I will agree was pretty stupid though. But on the flip side of it, McDonald's gets away with the exact same thing every day.

    If people want to sue Bethesda for these things they will have to sue every other game developer for the exact same thing.

    I am not trying to defend them or say that it is right, I am simply trying to point out that you cannot sue a company for a game having bugs in it.
    They're not suing just because it has bugs though.

    They're suing because Bethesda failed to properly meet even the barest of expectations with the release of an incomplete and utterly broken game, and is then refusing to properly refund dissatisfied customers just because of their purchase through a digital platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoG OverDose View Post

    The law firm Migliaccio & Rathod LLP is currently investigating and soliciting clients for a possible class action lawsuit against Bethesda over Fallout 76. According to the firm's class action page, they're hoping to represent players who bought the game and were unhappy with the quality level of the product from a technical perspective. More to the point, they are alleging that Bethesda is refusing refunds on the product.

    "While minor bugs and glitches are expected with the release of most new games, Fallout 76 launched with a 56GB patch that has proven to be but a starting point for the game’s problems," the firm writes on the suit solicitation page. "Gamers who have tried to receive a refund because of the game’s myriad glitches have been unable to do so since they downloaded the game, leaving them to deal with an unplayable experience until patches bring it back to a playable state."
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  4. #24
    Member VulgarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoG Seraph View Post
    The problems can be fixed.

    The point I am trying to make and have been trying to make is that suing a company because their game has bugs is ridiculous.

    The bag thing I will agree was pretty stupid though. But on the flip side of it, McDonald's gets away with the exact same thing every day.

    If people want to sue Bethesda for these things they will have to sue every other game developer for the exact same thing.

    I am not trying to defend them or say that it is right, I am simply trying to point out that you cannot sue a company for a game having bugs in it.
    The actual lawsuit has more to do with the fact people can't refund an item they can't use then just the bugs themselves. In the past when a game has been this disastrous on the PC platform Steam or whatever third party store has been able to step in give refunds. The very fact that Bethesda refused refunds just because you bought digital over physical is what is at fault here. If anything lawsuits like these will begin to give grounding for protecting consumers in the purchase of digital goods and software licenses (as is the case with most game purchases); something the US is sorely in need of. Hell even Steam's refund policy mirrors EU requirements and to some extent further then required by the laws there.


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by VulgarBear View Post
    The actual lawsuit has more to do with the fact people can't refund an item they can't use then just the bugs themselves. In the past when a game has been this disastrous on the PC platform Steam or whatever third party store has been able to step in give refunds. The very fact that Bethesda refused refunds just because you bought digital over physical is what is at fault here. If anything lawsuits like these will begin to give grounding for protecting consumers in the purchase of digital goods and software licenses (as is the case with most game purchases); something the US is sorely in need of. Hell even Steam's refund policy mirrors EU requirements and to some extent further then required by the laws there.
    Europe isn't the best example of laws to follow, you can post stuff on twitter that can get you thrown in jail over there. People should vote with there wallets and not purchase the next game Bethesda releases. Also steam takes 30% for each game title purchased through steam for themselves, Hence why bigger companies are moving to sell to pc on there own sites rather than steam. Tos clearly said you have no right to refund if you download this game, read the terms of service before you purchase anything always.

  6. #26
    Member VulgarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoG Cody120039 View Post
    Europe isn't the best example of laws to follow, you can post stuff on twitter that can get you thrown in jail over there. People should vote with there wallets and not purchase the next game Bethesda releases. Also steam takes 30% for each game title purchased through steam for themselves, Hence why bigger companies are moving to sell to pc on there own sites rather than steam. Tos clearly said you have no right to refund if you download this game, read the terms of service before you purchase anything always.
    Yes, no single country or place in the world is perfect what's your point. You say the wrong things in the US on twitter authorities will still be at your door. They are still leading the US when it comes to consumer protections. Steam's new revenue system actually favors bigger developers more and while that cut is part of the reason another biggie is control. Companies want complete control over their products. Also do you read each and every TOS that appears on your screen? The Amazon Lumberyard Engine gets interesting if you need to run life-critical or safety-critical systems. You can't unless the conditions below are met.

    Quote Originally Posted by AWS Terms of Service 57.10
    the event of widespread viral infection transmitted via bites or contact with bodily fluids that causes human corpses to reanimate and seek to consume living human flesh, blood, brain or nerve tissue and is likely to result in the fall of organized civilization
    While TOS are legally binding in most cases that doesn't mean you give up your right to challenge them. It's been done before with success and it can be done again. Cases like these set precedent that in this particular case is nothing but good for the consumer. There is a reason why arbitration became more popular in these documents, they have more of a chance of winning when someone stands up for themselves.


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VulgarBear View Post
    Yes, no single country or place in the world is perfect what's your point. You say the wrong things in the US on twitter authorities will still be at your door. They are still leading the US when it comes to consumer protections. Steam's new revenue system actually favors bigger developers more and while that cut is part of the reason another biggie is control. Companies want complete control over their products. Also do you read each and every TOS that appears on your screen? The Amazon Lumberyard Engine gets interesting if you need to run life-critical or safety-critical systems. You can't unless the conditions below are met.



    While TOS are legally binding in most cases that doesn't mean you give up your right to challenge them. It's been done before with success and it can be done again. Cases like these set precedent that in this particular case is nothing but good for the consumer. There is a reason why arbitration became more popular in these documents, they have more of a chance of winning when someone stands up for themselves.
    Yeah if you make an actual threat, but not if you say offensive crap joking around or make a bomb joke. In the UK you'll be arrested but not in the U.S but never mind that. No I don't read the TOS, but I also don't go around trying to sue a company because I'm out $60. I could understand thousands of dollars, like star citizen rip off, but $60 is $60 at the end of the day. Sometimes you gotta learn you cant always trust a company even though they've had a good track record up until Fallout 76, wait for reviews before you purchase a product. I still blame Bethesda but I blame the consumer as well for not waiting and preordering as soon as the game was ready for preorder. If you preorder you take a chance and sometimes you get a pile of shit.

  8. #28
    Member VulgarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoG Cody120039 View Post
    Yeah if you make an actual threat, but not if you say offensive crap joking around or make a bomb joke. In the UK you'll be arrested but not in the U.S but never mind that. No I don't read the TOS, but I also don't go around trying to sue a company because I'm out $60. I could understand thousands of dollars, like star citizen rip off, but $60 is $60 at the end of the day. Sometimes you gotta learn you cant always trust a company even though they've had a good track record up until Fallout 76, wait for reviews before you purchase a product. I still blame Bethesda but I blame the consumer as well for not waiting and preordering as soon as the game was ready for preorder. If you preorder you take a chance and sometimes you get a pile of shit.
    I feel ya dude. Although the lawsuit if it goes through will be a class action so Bethesda could be looking at refunding thousands of dollars for those effected. At the end of the day though this is exactly the reason I don't tend to buy games on release unless I've had some first hand experience with them. Till then I have a bunch of "free" offerings via Discord Nitro to keep me entertained and of course my backlog on steam lol.


  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoG Cody120039 View Post
    [COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Yeah if you make an actual threat, but not if you say offensive crap joking around or make a bomb joke. In the UK you'll be arrested but not in the U.S but never mind that. No I don't read the TOS, but I also don't go around trying to sue a company because I'm out $60. I could understand thousands of dollars, like star citizen rip off, but $60 is $60 at the end of the day. Sometimes you gotta learn you cant always trust a company even though they've had a good track record up until Fallout 76, wait for reviews before you purchase a product. I still blame Bethesda but I blame the consumer as well for not waiting and preordering as soon as the game was ready for preorder. If you preorder you take a chance and sometimes you get a pile of shit Bluestacks TextNow VPN .
    why do you blame the consumer ?? do not forget that the consumer is a king and he awaits the release of the product with patience
    Last edited by wahidovic; 01-06-2019 at 05:04 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahidovic View Post
    why do you blame the consumer ?? do not forget that the consumer is a king and he awaits the release of the product with patience
    It's also not just one company making the game. Maybe Bethesda didn't want to release the game; however, they way told too.

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